Church and Main

When JD Vance accused "in this house we believe" yard signs of butchering the Nicene Creed, Methodist pastor Teer Hardy started wondering what creeds are actually for. That question turned into an essay — and this conversation.
Teer Hardy, pastor of Trinity United Methodist Church in Alexandria, Virginia, and co-host of the Crackers and Grape Juice podcast, returns to discuss his piece "Creeds Are Not Yard Signs."
Shownotes:
The Creeds Are Not Yard Signs
The Body of Christ in a Polarized Culture with Teer Hardy | Episode 222
 
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Dennis sits down with Jason Swan Clark, theologian, spiritual director, and director of the London Centre for Spiritual Direction, to unpack his article "How Inclusive Church Excludes."  Drawing on his doctoral work on Christian identity formation and consumer culture, he brings a sharp theological lens to a word that gets thrown around constantly but rarely examined.
The conversation traces how "inclusion" has quietly become what Jason calls a "package deal" — a pseudo-confession where accepting one position requires accepting a whole cluster of others, on both the progressive and conservative sides. As Jason puts it in his article, inclusion has shifted from being one Christian virtue among many to becoming "the lens through which everything else is read, scripture, doctrine, ethics, and the church itself."
 
Shownotes:
How 'Inclusive' Church Excludes - https://www.spex.so/p/how-inclusive-church-excludesThe Church Needs Inclusion and Evangelism - https://churchandmain.substack.com/p/the-church-needs-inclusion-and-evangelism
 
 
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America isn't breaking apart because people are more extreme. We're breaking apart because our civic relationships are. That's the line from writer and researcher Lura Forcum that sparked this conversation on political polarization, tribalism, and what faith communities can do about it.
Dennis Sanders sits down with Lura Forcum, psychologist by training, writer of the newsletter How to Human, and co-host of the We Made This Political podcast, for a wide-ranging conversation on why Americans are sorting into hostile camps and what it would take to find our way back to each other.
Lura draws on her background in social psychology to explain how tribalism works beneath our conscious awareness, why dehumanization is the first step toward justifying harm, and how her Christian faith, particularly the conviction that all people are made in the image of God, shapes her understanding of political conflict. The conversation moves through some of the year's hardest moments, including the death of Senator Lindsey Graham and the shooting of Charlie Kirk, and asks what it looks like to hold complexity about people we disagree with rather than reducing them to caricature.
Along the way, Dennis and Lura talk about the segregated hour of American church life, the discomfort of crossing racial and denominational lines to worship, and why sharing a meal, whether at a neighborhood potluck or the communion table, might be one of the most powerful tools we have for rebuilding trust.
Shownotes:
How to Human (Substack newsletter) - https://h2h.substack.com/We Made This Political (Podcast) - https://wemadethispolitical.substack.com/podcast
 
 
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In a culture where churches increasingly demand ideological uniformity, is there still room for people who don't fit neatly into a camp? Dennis sits down with Garwood Anderson — former Dean and President of Nashotah House Theological Seminary, now a Senior Fellow at the Lumen Center — to talk about his article "A Place to Land," the story of a woman caught between conservative and progressive churches that each expected total agreement.
Together they explore why churches have become political litmus tests, how fear and distrust drive people to the poles, what it means to detach Jesus from being a "mascot" for our own side, and why a genuine Christian discourse might make everyone a little uncomfortable — and why that's exactly the point.
Shownotes:
A Place to Land
Loved Before We Are Labeled
Gen Z's Lost Hope-YouTube Preview
 
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Why bad things happen to good people has always been the classic question of faith. But Gen Z is asking something different: why don't bad things happen to bad people?
Jared Dodson — a Gen Z Bible professor at Bushnell University — joins Dennis to unpack the perspective he's seeing in his students and peers, one where anger at injustice, exposure to political violence, and a deep desire for God's judgment are reshaping how a generation reads scripture. They talk about the imprecatory Psalms, the story of David, the temptation to dehumanize the very people we call unjust, and why nonviolence still matters even when the old approaches feel like they've failed.
The conversation moves through lament, mental health, the book of Job, and how Revelation offers a vision of reconciliation rather than just judgment. It's a generational conversation about anger, justice, and what it might take for older and younger Christians to understand each other.
Shownotes:
GenZ Isn't Asking Why Bad Things Happen to Good People
Walking Alongside Scripture (Jared's Substack)
 
 
 
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There's a lot of despair in the world right now, and it seems especially pronounced among Generation Z. Writer, speaker, and podcaster Jake Doberins joins the show to talk about his recent essay "Having Hope in a Hopeless World," exploring why hope feels so scarce for his generation and what makes Christian hope different from mere optimism.
Jake shares his own journey from a fundamentalist, know-it-all faith to something fuller and more honest, and unpacks why institutions, including the church, have lost people's trust. He and Dennis talk about loneliness, the risk built into hope, and why modeling a hopeful life matters more than teaching it. As Jake puts it, hope is "this stubborn belief that says, yeah, things are bad... but they're not always going to be bad."
Shownotes:
Having Hope in a Hopeless World
Christianity without Compromise Podcast
Heavy Lies the Stole
 
 
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Is now a good time to have kids? For many younger people, the answer is a firm no — climate change, political chaos, economic uncertainty, and a general sense of doom have made the idea of bringing a child into the world feel irresponsible. But theologian and expectant father Griffin Gooch sees it differently.
In this episode, Dennis talks with Griffin about why the fears surrounding having children — and getting married — say more about our cultural moment than they do about the actual goodness of family life. They explore how negativity bias and the constant flood of bad news shape our sense of the future, what social science actually tells us about what makes for a good life, and why the Christian tradition has always understood children as a profound blessing rather than a burden.
 It's a conversation about hope, friction, flourishing, and why bringing something good into a broken world isn't naive — it might be exactly what the world needs.
Shownotes:
Having Kids When There's Never a Good Time to Have Kids
 
 
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Is artificial intelligence a threat — or a tool for love? Episcopal priest Cathie Caimano thinks it's the latter, and she joins Dennis in making the case that most church conversations about AI are missing the point entirely.
Drawing from Pope Leo's encyclical Magnifica Humanitas, Cathie argues the question isn't whether AI is good or bad, but how each of us chooses to use it. While headlines focused on the Pope's warnings about AI's dangers, Cathie found something different at the heart of the encyclical — a call to examine our own values and ask how we are using these powerful new tools to love God and love our neighbor.
Shownotes:
The Pope said Use AI for Love'
Bless Me Father, For I Have Sinned in using AI.
Related Episodes:
Navigating the AI Apocalypse with Michael DeLashmutt | Episode 284
Can AI Help or Hinder Human Flourishing? with Paul Hoffman | Episode 266
Pastoral Leadership and ChatGPT with Jeremy Wilhelmi | Episode 178
 
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What happens when a local church closes? More than a building goes dark — something essential to the fabric of community disappears with it. Trygve Johnson, executive director of the Preach For Foundation, joins Dennis to talk about why the local church matters more than most people realize and what is lost when congregations vanish from our neighborhoods.
Drawing from his three-part Substack series When the Lights Go Out, Trygve introduces the idea of the "grammar of grace" — the underlying cadence of forgiveness, belonging, and second chances that the church offers to the broader culture. When that grammar goes silent, we are left with little more than meritocracy, isolation, and the exhausting pressure to perform our way into being loved.
The conversation moves from the social utility of the church to something deeper — the sacramental and theological vision of a community that does not need to earn its place at the table because, as Trig puts it, the church is the table. Along the way, Dennis and Trig talk about recruiting the next generation of pastors, the importance of Wednesday potlucks, why Jesus apparently refused to serve bad wine, and what it means to practice resurrection in a season of anxiety and decline.
Shownotes:
When the Lights Go Out Part One
When the Lights Go Out, Part Two
When the Lights Go Out, Part Three
Preach For website
 
 
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What does it mean to trust God in an age when trust itself feels almost impossible? In this episode, Dennis sits down with pastor, author, and Christian Century contributor Katherine Willis Pershey, who opens up about her journey from secular skepticism through ordained ministry to a renewed and deepening faith in the God who acts. They talk honestly about the decline of progressive mainline denominations like the UCC, asking whether the crisis is not just numerical but spiritual, rooted in a slow drift away from confidence in the resurrected Christ toward a gospel of human programs and good intentions. Katherine brings both unflinching honesty about the institutions she loves and a hard-won hope grounded not in optimism about what we can do but in the promise of what God is already doing. If you have ever felt the tension between pursuing justice and trusting in grace, or wondered whether the church can find its way through death to resurrection, this conversation is for you.
Shownotes:
Life, Death, and Resurrection in the United Church of Christ
Please, liberal Christians, read Eugene Peterson
Every day is Holy Saturday
Katherine's website
 
 
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